Audience Feedback- Which Stallion Suits Black Caviar – Part Two   Leave a comment

Audience Feedback- Which Stallion Suits Black Caviar – Part Two

Tara Madgwick – Wednesday, 8 August 2012

Audience response to our story posing the question of what stallion would suit Black Caviar best has been overwhelming, so if you’re interested in what people have to say including respected pedigree expert Jane Henning read on.

Click here for the original story.

Of the commercial sires available in Australia this year, Redoute’s Choice looks to me the best option on pedigree for Black Caviar.

Among its attributes, the mating creates inbreeding to Nijinsky II. In Australia alone, this pattern which has been present in the pedigrees of 15 Group One winners including SEA SIREN, VEANDERCROSS, HEART OF DREAMS, and DESERT SKY.In all there are 62 Group or Grade One winners inbred to Nijinsky II worldwide. They also include stallions standing in Australia this year, MUSIR (also by Redoute’s Choice) and ZOFFANY.

On top of that, Redoute’s Choice himself traces to the same taproot as Nijinsky II (TORPENHOW), further reinforcing this prepotent line.
Another duo brought together in a Redoute’s Choice – Black Caviar mating is Canny Lad and Snippets. Redoute’s Choice’s Group One winning sons Stratum and Snitzel both, like Black Caviar, carry Snippets through their dams and of course Canny Lad through their sire. This combination creates a sex balanced duplication of the speedy Lunchtime, which may be why they work so well together.

Redoute’s Choice is capable of producing sprinters such as MISS FINLAND and STRATUM and Classic types such as SAMANTHA MISS and MUSIR. His progeny’s average winning distance is around 1400m.

Both on type and on distance propensity, Redoute’s Choice looks to be a very compatible mate for Black Caviar. Jane Henning, Pedigree Dynamics.

SO YOU THINKthis year. Back to England for FRANKEL next year. Good luck !! Greg.

I would pick More Than Ready as the sire of her first foal. Kerry

Makfi (Dubawi) ex Black Caviar (Bel Esprit). Rated the world’s equal best three-year-old & miler of 2010, Makfi was a dual Group 1 winner over a mile from his six career starts in Europe. He won the Group 1 TwoThousand Guineas over 1600m beating Dick Turpin (eventual dual Group 1 winner and now sire), Canford Cliffs (5 x Group 1 winner and now sire), Xtension (eventual back-to-back Hong Kong Gr.1 Champions Mile winner), and St Nicholas Abby (3 x Gr.1 winner).

In his fifth career start he reached a significant milestone when becoming the only horse to defeat the great Goldikova, in her finest year, in the Group 1 Prix Jaques le Marios over 1600m. In her five-year-old year, Goldikova raced on six occasions (all in Group 1 features) and won five of them – with her only defeat coming against Makfi.

Makfi is the highest rated son by Dubawi who has been nothing short of a sensation since retiring to stud having produced 45 individual stakes winners with his oldest only five years of age.

There is no doubt Makfi’s race credentials are of an international standard, and having won between 1400m – 1600m I would say is compatible with the distance range if mated with Black Caviar.

On type Makfi would suit her perfectly being a little bit shorter, and coupled in length, limiting the prospect of throwing a ‘big ugly boat’ as quoted by Tara. He is very attractive on the eye, with a great walk and temperament and with his accelerating turn of foot illustrated throughout his career – I’d love to think what quality of animal they could produce.

Lastly, pedigree (sparing you a novel on viable crosses) – Makfi is from the Green Desert mare, Dhelaal, while Black Caviar is from the Desert Sun mare Helsinge. The obvious duplication of Green Desert is highly attractive, particularly with Dubawi’s great strike rate cross with Green Desert mares (12 runners, 9 winners, 43 wins, 4 stakes winners).

Although based in New Zealand, Black Caviar is no stranger to travel and would relish in the lush pastures of New Zealand. A return flight to New Zealand, lower agistment rates and a service fee of $27,500 + GST would still see you well under the advertised service fees (alone) of the high end stallions of Fastnet Rock, Redoute’s Choice & Encosta de lago – while still having access mate two of the world’s best racehorses, of their time and hemispheres respectively.

Just a thought from outside the box – quite a way from the box. Nick.

I think that So You Think would be an excellent match for Black Caviar…body wise and breed wise. I saw him win one Cox Plate and he was electric and such a good type and thanks to Bart for picking him out at Karaka and racing him into the horse he is now, with his wonderful early education.
Couldn’t be better. Helen.

The saying of put the best to the best and hope for the best, just look at our famous mare Sunline, it just doesn’t work most of the time.

I believe she should go to Stratum.

Black caviar is line bred to 2 daughters of Vain 3 x 4 and Crystal Lily by Stratum was line bred 4×4 to 2 daughters of Vain

Therefore Stratum picks up on the Vain cross and Black Caviar is line-bred to this cross, how could you go to anything else, as this is a proven cross.

If bred right the foal looks right so it might top the sale, but if bred wrong who knows. Ken.

For mine it would be Stratum because of the additional crosses of Vain, Nijinsky and Sir Ivor and the fact he has been a Champion sire that gets plenty of winners. She could be like so many other champion race mares that are so disappointing at stud so why spend more on service fees at the very top end stallions if they intend to race the foals themselves as they stated at Royal Ascot? At the end of the day with her pedigree she can virtually go where they like. Peter.

My first choice for Black Caviar would be Casino Prince given the fact that this has already worked with the family and would not cause concern in regards to size given the more refined foals he produces as well as an affinity with Nijinsky and Last Tycoon.

Pedigree wise I think the best stallions would be

1. Statue of Liberty. Due to duplicating Crimson Saint as discussed and he has produced the 2nd fastest spinter in Australia in recent years.
2. Gio Ponti. for the same duplication although the distances he won over may cause a slight concern in wanting to have a quick winner for the first foal.
3. Dream Ahead. Love the duplication of L’Anguissola over Green Desert and then the reverse in Black Caviar’s pedigree. This type of inbreeding has produced a number of outstanding horses. They don’t come much faster or better performed than Dream Ahead and although not proven I believe having a pedigree match for the mare is much more important than commercial appeal in the long term.

How many great mares have been poorly mated in terms of pedigree due to owners searching for the best sale outcome which in the end results in a significant reduction to mare and future progeny.

Lot 110 in the Inglis sale for August is a good example of matching the mare with the right stallion. Visited Spinning World once (Best in Show duplication) for one stakes winner and never went back to revisit another stallion with Best in Show with ordinary results on other stallions. I have followed this cross very closely and if we look at the mares that have produced stakes winners to this cross there was a 71% stakes winners to runners and only 12% when these same mares were matched with other stallions. I’m not saying that the Rassmussen theory works all the time as many mares bred this way will never produce a stakes winner no matter what, but if the mare is going produce superior runners then the odds are certainly in your favour by ensuring she visits the right stallion. Bernard.

Well the name fit. But would be a great type with speeeeeeeed. I Am Invincible for Black Caviar. Brett.

How about Frankel or Curlin ? Carmen.


Posted August 8, 2012 by belesprit09 in Broodmare Progeny

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